The Judgment of Paris Forum

Go Back   The Judgment of Paris Forum > 2005-2012 > 2009: Jaunary - December
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 28th January 2009   #1
Maureen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2006
Posts: 122
Default Paglia prefers ''Rubensian'' Winslet

Literary critic and cultural commentator Camille Paglia is a monthly columnist at Salon.com. This month, her column featured letters from readers, and her replies. In one letter, a reader expresses his admiration for a particular scene featuring Kate Winslet in the 1997 version of Titanic:

Quote:
I have to agree with you about Kate Winslet. There's a scene midway through "Titanic," after you've gotten caught up in the characters, with her just sitting at a dining table. She doesn't say or do anything, but her presence in that blue dress is so powerful and overwhelming. It's like a classic painting coming alive and whacking you in the brain.

Paglia's reply:

Quote:
Oh, thank you, thank you! After being chastised for my "Titanic" campaign, I am delighted to find a fellow admirer of Kate Winslet's Rubensian period, when she looked like a voluptuous basket of ripe fruit. She's still handsome, but I loved her early opulence. We need to rethink our current harsh standards of female beauty, which have driven even that apostle of sexuality, Madonna, to morbidly skeletal extremes.

"A voluptuous basket of ripe fruit." Delicious, indeed!

Link
Maureen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2009   #2
Chad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 2005
Posts: 352
Default Re: Paglia prefers ''Rubensian'' Winslet

It's really disappointing what's happened to Kate Winslet. She used to be the second-most-gorgeous British actress after Sophia Myles, and was especially beautiful in Titanic and other films of that period. Lately, though, she looks like a Hollywoodized, masculined, diminished version of herself, and it's aged her terribly.

What a pity. Her appearance in Titanic was breathtaking.

As for Titanic itself, though, what a frustrating movie. The filmmakers spent lavish amounts of time and effort getting the sets and costumes right. Everything looks pefectly authentic. Even Winslet's soft, robust, English Rose appearance is true to the period.

http://images.allmoviephoto.com/199...titanic_032.jpg

But then the movie goes off and makes her a modern ultra-feminist harridan, giving her attitudes that no woman of the period would have had. Kate's behaviour is totally anachronistic in the film, and makes a mockery of the movie's otherwise remarkable attention to period detail. The part might as well have been played by Sigourney Weaver or Susan Sarandon. Ugh.

Kudos to Paglia for admitting the shortcomings of the film, and especially, for expressiong a preference for Winslet's more luscious figure of the past.

The funniest thing I ever read in an e-mail viral message was the following "revised" Titantic script, which, I'd say, sends it up perfectly. It's a bit long, but trust me - it's a hoot.

Quote:

SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: This forward contains anti-Titanic sentiments and may not be suitable for some of our thinner-skinned audience members.

Many of you have seen the film "Titanic," which is about a great big boat that sank like a thousand years ago that for some reason everyone is just now getting worked up about. Some of you -- I am speaking to the women here -- have seen this movie several times. And I would like to know why.

Have the principles of film-making not been adequately explained to you, so you think there's a chance the movie will end differently if you see it again? Do you think this is a "Choose Your Own Adventure" movie? Because it's not. No matter how many times you see it, the boat is going to sink, and the same people are going to die, including the guy who falls and whacks his noggin on the railing on the way down.

I think this movie is entirely too long. The actual sinking of the Titanic took only four hours; the movie is easily three times that long. From the following choices, select the "this-movie-is-too-long" line you like best and go with it:

-Savings bonds have matured in less time than it takes to watch this movie.
-Most Hollywood marriages do not last as long as this movie.
-I had to shave twice during this movie.
-Three Eastern European nations (Izikikstan, Checher, and Zknkkmnzxxk) were formed while I was watching this movie.

As a public service, then, I am offering my much-shortened screenplay which some ambitious film-maker can feel free to use as the script for a shorter version of "Titanic." All I want in return is a lot of money.

Scene 1

KATE WINSLET: Why, this is a fancy boat, isn't it?

KATE'S WEASELLY FIANCE: Yes it certainly is. Here is the art you
asked for. It is by an artist named "Picasso." I am certain he will
amount to nothing.

KATE: Ha ha ha. That is very funny to our '90s audience, because of
course Picasso later amounted to quite a bit, after this boat sank.

LEONARDO DICAPRIO: Hello, I'm Leonardo DiCaprio. Perhaps you
have seen the many Internet sites dedicated to the worship of me. You
are very pretty.

KATE: Thank you. So are you.

LEONARDO: I know. Prettier than you, in fact. I am going to put on my
"brooding" face now, to ensure that women will keep coming back again
and again to see this movie. Later, my white shirt will be soaking
wet.

KATE: While you're doing that, I will concentrate on standing here and
looking pretty, to keep the men in the audience interested until the
boat sinks and people start dying.

WEASELLY FIANCE: Excuse me. I do not like you, Leonardo, even
though you saved my fiancee's life. I am going to sneer at you and
treat you like dirt because you're poor, and then I'll probably be
physically abusive to my fiancee, and then, just to make sure the
audience really hates me, and to make sure my character is entirely
one-dimensional, perhaps I'll throw an elderly person into the
water. And be English.

AUDIENCE: Boo! We hate you! Even though all real people have at
least a few admirable qualities, we have not been shown any of yours,
and plus, you're trying to come between Leonardo and Kate, and so
therefore we hate you! Boo! (Even though technically it is Leonardo
who is coming between you and Kate. But Leonardo is handsomer than
you, even though he is only 13, so we are on his side. Boo!)


Scene 2

LEONARDO: I'm glad we snuck away like this so that you could cheat
on your fiance.

KATE: So am I. Even though I am engaged to him and have made a
commitment to marry him, that is no reason why you and I cannot
climb into the backseat of a car and steam up the windows
together. The fact that I am the heroine of the movie will no doubt
help the cattle-like audience forgive me of this, though they would
probably be VERY angry indeed if my fiance were to do the same thing
to me.

AUDIENCE: Darn straight we would! Moo! We mean, Boo!

LEONARDO: I agree. First, I would like to draw you, though, so of
course you have to take off your clothes.

KATE: But can a movie with five minutes of continuous nudity be at all
successful in say, Provo, Utah, where the audiences might not stand
for that sort of thing?

LEONARDO: I would be willing to bet that for the first three weeks the
film is in release, every single showing at Wynnsong Theater in Provo
will sell out.

NARRATOR: According to Wynnsong manager Matt Palmer, that is
exactly what happened.

KATE: All right, then.

Sound of clothes hitting the floor


Scene 3

FIRST MATE: Captain, we're about to hit an iceberg.

CAPTAIN: Great, I could use some ice for my drink.

Sound of drinking

ICEBERG: (hits boat)

FIRST MATE: That can't be good.

CAPTAIN: Bottoms up!

AUDIENCE: (silence)

FIRST MATE: That was irony, you fools.

AUDIENCE: Baa! Moo! Where's Leonardo?


Scene 4

LEONARDO: I have been informed that this boat is sinking

KATE: That is terrible

LEONARDO: Would you like to engage in some more immoral-but-justified
behavior?

KATE: Certainly.

WEASELLY FIANCE: (aside) I'm getting the raw end of the deal here.
(to Leonardo) Listen, Leonardo, to cement my morally-dubious-yet-
somehow-less-annoying-than-you personality, I am going to handcuff you
to this pipe, here in a room that will soon be filling with water, due
to the fact that we are sinking, which I believe has been mentioned
previously.

LEONARDO: Why don't you just shoot me?

WEASELLY FIANCE: Because then you wouldn't be able to escape and
save Kate from me. Of course, you're going to die anyway --

AUDIENCE: Don't spoil it for us! Boo!

LEONARDO: He's right, though. I am doomed.

AUDIENCE: Aww, look how cute he is when he's doomed.

WEASELLY FIANCE: I hate you people.


Scene 5

150-YEAR-OLD-KATE: And that's when Leonardo rescued me from
my evil fiance and helped me float on a board in the water. Of course,
if it hadn't been for having to rescue HIM, I could have gotten on an
actual lifeboat, and not frozen my legs nearly off. Anyway, he's
pretty much dead now, and I'm well over a thousand years old, and
who's making my supper? I need a bath. Turn down that Enya music, it's
making my ears hurt. You kids today, with your loud music. Why, when I
was -- hey!

Don't you walk away from me, Mr. Snooty-Patootie! I'd turn you over
my knee, if I had one. I'll beat you in the head with this huge
diamond! Come back here!

Fade to black
Roll credits
Play annoyingly overplayed Celine Dion song
Chad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2009   #3
Maureen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2006
Posts: 122
Default Re: Paglia prefers ''Rubensian'' Winslet

The styling, sets, and especially Kate Winslet were wonderful to look at in the film. Unfortunately, the characters were all caricatures, and the plot seemed to exist only to tie the special effects scenes together.

Kate Winslet was an absolute knockout at the Academy Awards that year, too. With her soft, round cheeks and lush décolletage, she was arresting in that green gown. I hope devoutly that she will regain her former voluptuous contours.
Maureen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2009   #4
Graham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 238
Default Re: Paglia prefers ''Rubensian'' Winslet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad
WEASELLY FIANCE: Excuse me. I do not like you, Leonardo, even though you saved my fiancee's life. I am going to sneer at you and treat you like dirt because you're poor, and then I'll probably be physically abusive to my fiancee, and then, just to make sure the audience really hates me, and to make sure my character is entirely one-dimensional, perhaps I'll throw an elderly person into the water. And be English.

It's funny because it's true. Funny but infuriating. It's a particularly egregeous example of Hollywood twisting reality into its opposite, replacing truths with lies, for political purposes.

In real life, of course, an aristocrat of the Titanic era would have been a gentleman, and would have been deferential to a woman he loved, whom he would have treated like an angel. A woman like Kate Winslet's character would have been a lady, not behaved the way that she did in the film - almost like a streetwalker, crude and vulgar. And the lower classes weren't exactly known for good manners; or to put it plainly, Kate's virtue wouldn't have been safe on the lower decks.

But of course, Hollywood wants to paint that time period through a distorting filter, beause the truth - that it was a nobler time, and a time when men and women related better to each other than today - contradicts their propagandistic intent.

Also in the grimly funny category, there was a brilliantly scathing piece about Hollywood cliches posted the other day. Except for #2, they're all dead on.

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/j...-that-must-die/

The only cliches that are missing are, of course, Hollywood stereotypes about full-figured women - i.e., that they're matronly and miserable, when of course, the opposite is true: they're sexier and happier than their starving rivals.

But to depict that reality would also confound Hollywood's anti-feminine political purpose.
Graham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th February 2009   #5
Christine
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 2009
Posts: 23
Default Re: Paglia prefers ''Rubensian'' Winslet

I must participate! Rose in Titanic looks indeed a rose in those gorgeous dresses - lush, elegant, opulent. But if her look is angelic, her behaviour was anything but classy. Let's say that her manners left a lot to be desired.

My mother was really insulted by that whiney, nasty woman who hit servants - very lady-like indeed! - and asked why this true story even had these two fictional characters...
Christine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2009   #6
Kristina
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 2005
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, United States
Posts: 22
Send a message via AIM to Kristina Send a message via Yahoo to Kristina
Default Re: Paglia prefers ''Rubensian'' Winslet

I feel the need to add my voice to this too. Although I loved the movie as much as any other girl my age, Kate and Leo/ Rose and Jack did not seem like a great love to me, and I would actually have preferred Billy Zane for a boyfriend or husband!
Kristina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2009   #7
HSG
Administrator
 
Join Date: July 2005
Posts: 1,784
Default Re: Paglia prefers ''Rubensian'' Winslet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
In real life, of course, an aristocrat of the Titanic era would have been a gentleman, and would have been deferential to a woman he loved, whom he would have treated like an angel. A woman like Kate Winslet's character would have been a lady, not behaved the way that she did in the film - crude and vulgar. And the lower classes weren't exactly known for good manners; or to put it plainly, Kate's virtue wouldn't have been safe on the lower decks.

But of course, Hollywood wants to paint that time period through a distorting filter, because the truth - that it was a nobler time, and a time when men and women related better to each other than today - contradicts their propagandistic intent.
Very true.

That send-up of Titanic was completely hilarious, and the list of Hollywood clichés is spot-on. Both identify the film industry's obvious and rather crude propagandistic bent.

How encouraging to hear a noted academic like Paglia praising Kate Winslet's "early opulence" and bemoaning her subsequent figure-diminishment. And how gratifying to find a contributor comparing her fuller-figured beauty to "a classic painting coming alive." Slowly but surely, the general public is discovering that the modern underweight standard is an aberration in human history, and that the ideal of feminine beauty in past ages was invariably plus-size.

Winlet's all-time most beautiful public appearance may have been during the 1998 Golden Globe awards.

Outfitted in a daringly sheer, lacy gown that lovingly embraced her sumptuous figure, and sporting an elegant bejewelled choker, she was a vision of Old World beauty. The opulence of Winslet's wardrobe perfectly harmonized with the richness of her appearance.

She was decadently voluptuous, and her facial features had a robust fleshiness that spoke of lavish self-indulgence. She was more Rose than ever at this event.

Note how her body-embracing gown defined the womanly swell of her hips.

There was a visible weight to her figure in this dress, a sensual sense of heaviness.

Although she wasn't actually plus-size, the figure-defining gown celebrated her curvaceous proportions, making her seem curvier and more attractive than ever.

This image offers a rare reverse view of her dress. Notice how appealingly low it was cut, how the delicate straps pressed sensually into her plump shoulders, and how her back displayed a smooth, fleshy, unbroken surface, with her shoulder-blades ensconced in soft fullness.

Although she arrived with Leonardo DiCaprio as her "date," her well-fed appearance more readily suggested her as the consort of a wealthy spouse, such as Billy Zane's character in Titanic--her physical opulence reflecting a lavish lifestyle in which her every desire was fulfilled, her every appetite indulged.

At certain unguarded moments during the broadcast, Winslet even exhibited a thrillingly vain, spoiled appearance which made her soft, buxom beauty all the more irresistible.

It is hardly surprising that Titanic created anachronistic characters and maligned the upper classes. If the film had truthfully depicted the human behaviour of the time, audiences would have witnessed the gentility of the aristocracy, marked by respect and mutual esteem between the genders, and a refinement and nobility of character borne of good breeding. Then, not only would the public have realized that the aesthetic values of the past were preferable to those of the present, but that the moral values of the age were superior to modern degeneracy as well.

Audiences might even have realized that the social upheavals of the last several decades have left society much poorer, and robbed humanity of much of what was best and most dignified about it. They might have wished for a return of timeless human values--and to the Hollywood elites who are politically committed to the modern ideologies that foment class resentment and gender conflict, this desire on the part of the public for the harmony and civility of the past would be intolerable.

HSG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 20:36.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.